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Creator of Ara Fell, Rise of the Third Power, and a lot of failed projects.
Ara Fell
A 16-bit era, Japanese-style roleplaying game set in a magical world floating above the clouds.
A 16-bit era, Japanese-style roleplaying game set in a magical world floating above the clouds.
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Question regarding leveling up and stat increases.
>For example, "each increase is more expensive" vs "can only raise attack 5 times every 10 levels". The first option encourages diversity by having different optimal choices based on the situation, but the player can still save up everything for ATK.
But increasing the cost per increase effectively does the same thing. You'll level up and still have to choose between picking something else to level or just conserving the skill point. Either way, you're being forced to do something at certain points. I don't see why that's different. I might be argued into agreeing that the increased skill point thing is better, because it won't feel like you're arbitrarily being forced into a decision, except that it still functions the same way practically.
As a player, I'd rather always have something to do at a level up than pick between saving some points or or spending them on something else.
In this way, I preferred SD3's system.
>As for "Seiken Densetsu 3 did it" it did and it was flawed, it didn't work out and I didn't feel good with the system.
That's fair, but again, practically, it works the same way. Either way, you're forcing people to either save their points or spread them around. What's the difference between waiting for 3 levels to save up enough skill points to raise ATK again and having an hard limit on it?
As far as how the game actually plays out, not much.
Maybe it just feels that way because the caps feel arbitrary, and if that's what it is, then that's what it is. But it does create levels where you don't do anything when you level up, which is something I really don't like.
>then again i think leveling in games is pointless and that exp is a worthless system so who am i to talk
Ah, well, it does color your opinion on the topic slightly. haha
But increasing the cost per increase effectively does the same thing. You'll level up and still have to choose between picking something else to level or just conserving the skill point. Either way, you're being forced to do something at certain points. I don't see why that's different. I might be argued into agreeing that the increased skill point thing is better, because it won't feel like you're arbitrarily being forced into a decision, except that it still functions the same way practically.
As a player, I'd rather always have something to do at a level up than pick between saving some points or or spending them on something else.
In this way, I preferred SD3's system.
>As for "Seiken Densetsu 3 did it" it did and it was flawed, it didn't work out and I didn't feel good with the system.
That's fair, but again, practically, it works the same way. Either way, you're forcing people to either save their points or spread them around. What's the difference between waiting for 3 levels to save up enough skill points to raise ATK again and having an hard limit on it?
As far as how the game actually plays out, not much.
Maybe it just feels that way because the caps feel arbitrary, and if that's what it is, then that's what it is. But it does create levels where you don't do anything when you level up, which is something I really don't like.
>then again i think leveling in games is pointless and that exp is a worthless system so who am i to talk
Ah, well, it does color your opinion on the topic slightly. haha
Question regarding leveling up and stat increases.
>This is the simplest option. Don't give the player a choice to make bad stat builds.
Not the most fun option, though. If you're given freedom, you're going to be given freedom to do things badly. There are a lot of good choices (and probably just 1 optimal choice, though this isn't intentional).
Again, if you want to spec Lita with only ATK, that's fine, go for it. I just don't want the game to encourage you to do that.
>Another option is reworking how the stats function so that the difference between sup-optimal and optimal is much smaller
That's actually the intention. If you build only offensive stats and nothing defensive, and get blown up for being a glass cannon, but like that style of play, go for it.
>This goes back to what Craze said. Why even give the player the choice if the game is going to force them into making the choices it wants?
Are you saying that if you put any limitation on choice, then you shouldn't be given any choice at all?
Not the most fun option, though. If you're given freedom, you're going to be given freedom to do things badly. There are a lot of good choices (and probably just 1 optimal choice, though this isn't intentional).
Again, if you want to spec Lita with only ATK, that's fine, go for it. I just don't want the game to encourage you to do that.
>Another option is reworking how the stats function so that the difference between sup-optimal and optimal is much smaller
That's actually the intention. If you build only offensive stats and nothing defensive, and get blown up for being a glass cannon, but like that style of play, go for it.
>This goes back to what Craze said. Why even give the player the choice if the game is going to force them into making the choices it wants?
Are you saying that if you put any limitation on choice, then you shouldn't be given any choice at all?
Question regarding leveling up and stat increases.
> with how limited mp is, ATK already has a decent amount of viability over INT
I think this is strictly a scaling issue. If you give someone enough mana and INT, and have the scaling correct (and the regeneration rate, and the cost of skills, etc, etc), using abilities should be able to be as powerful as just attacking.
Does that mean INT should give you 20 per level and Lita's Holy Shot should only have 3 ATK scaling instead of 5? There are a ton of ways to tweak this. The idea is that raising INT will give you magic defense and ability power, whereas attack only makes your attacks stronger while giving a smaller amount of ability power.
The way these stats function isn't how I'd choose to do it if I could make the whole thing from scratch, but I think there's a way to make them work well enough with the rm2k3 default.
Incidentally, not sure if you've played/updated lately, but raising Mp now gives you 4, and could be raised even higher, which also increases the rate of regeneration. Hopefully that will help.
>if you don't want players to min/max, then don't give them the option or system to in the first place.
It's not that I care whether or not they min/max. I don't want them to feel encouraged to min/max.
>i think you're just limited in what you can do with 2k3 and blockading the player from min/maxing with the level caps says "this is just more clicking to level up, because i demand you have this stat spread no matter what."
Possibly, but this exists in other games. Seiken Densetsu 3 comes to mind. Also, that's a bit of an exaggeration. It's not that I want this or that stat spread. That's not the same as wanting a stat spread, which may or may not be a solution here. But like I said, SD3 does that, and I feel like it worked well.
There are other ways of doing this. For example, granting a number of skill points per level and making each increase more expensive, which would cause you to have to store up skill points sometimes (which you can't presently do in Ara Fell, but can be added easily) to raise the stat that you want.
>not sure why you took out the default leveling in the first place, to be honest... more menus doesn't make a game inherently better
You don't really think my reasoning behind this was "I wish I had more menus" I hope.
Several people, unprompted, brought up that the leveling system was boring, and this is my solution. I've always enjoyed being able to customize characters by spending points on stuff for level ups. As far as I can tell, the new system is fun, and I've gotten positive feedback on the change.
Is it that you just don't like the whole skill points when leveling up thing, or do you find it done poorly (outside of balance issues) in Ara Fell? Because I don't see any reason it's just inherently not viable.
I think this is strictly a scaling issue. If you give someone enough mana and INT, and have the scaling correct (and the regeneration rate, and the cost of skills, etc, etc), using abilities should be able to be as powerful as just attacking.
Does that mean INT should give you 20 per level and Lita's Holy Shot should only have 3 ATK scaling instead of 5? There are a ton of ways to tweak this. The idea is that raising INT will give you magic defense and ability power, whereas attack only makes your attacks stronger while giving a smaller amount of ability power.
The way these stats function isn't how I'd choose to do it if I could make the whole thing from scratch, but I think there's a way to make them work well enough with the rm2k3 default.
Incidentally, not sure if you've played/updated lately, but raising Mp now gives you 4, and could be raised even higher, which also increases the rate of regeneration. Hopefully that will help.
>if you don't want players to min/max, then don't give them the option or system to in the first place.
It's not that I care whether or not they min/max. I don't want them to feel encouraged to min/max.
>i think you're just limited in what you can do with 2k3 and blockading the player from min/maxing with the level caps says "this is just more clicking to level up, because i demand you have this stat spread no matter what."
Possibly, but this exists in other games. Seiken Densetsu 3 comes to mind. Also, that's a bit of an exaggeration. It's not that I want this or that stat spread. That's not the same as wanting a stat spread, which may or may not be a solution here. But like I said, SD3 does that, and I feel like it worked well.
There are other ways of doing this. For example, granting a number of skill points per level and making each increase more expensive, which would cause you to have to store up skill points sometimes (which you can't presently do in Ara Fell, but can be added easily) to raise the stat that you want.
>not sure why you took out the default leveling in the first place, to be honest... more menus doesn't make a game inherently better
You don't really think my reasoning behind this was "I wish I had more menus" I hope.
Several people, unprompted, brought up that the leveling system was boring, and this is my solution. I've always enjoyed being able to customize characters by spending points on stuff for level ups. As far as I can tell, the new system is fun, and I've gotten positive feedback on the change.
Is it that you just don't like the whole skill points when leveling up thing, or do you find it done poorly (outside of balance issues) in Ara Fell? Because I don't see any reason it's just inherently not viable.
Question regarding leveling up and stat increases.
So, the title probably isn't clear, but this is what I mean.
In Ara Fell, every time you level up, you gain a skill point. Presently, you can level up any attribute (strength, intelligence, etc) as much as you want, with the exception of Seri Kesu, whose magic pool maxes out at 999, which could be achieved after leveling her Magic stat 12 times.
Some of the feedback I've received from Ara Fell's beta suggests that people are inclined to just max the stats of what they think the characters are best at. Lita, a quick, high damage archer, encourages players to raise her AGI and ATK stats, and ignore the rest.
This isn't inherently a problem, but it does encourage players to build their characters in ways that are sub-optimal. I don't mind if players do build their characters this way, but I don't want them to be encouraged to build this way.
Every stat is useful for every character. Increasing your Magic pool causes you to regenerate more per turn, for example. All damaging abilities scale much more with INT than with ATK.
What I'd like to do is make a generalizable system so that you can only raise a stat so high as regulated by some level cap. For example, maybe if you're <= level 10, your ATK can only be raised a maximum of 5 times, and <= level 20, a max of 10 times, etc.
Anyway, I was wondering if anyone had any ideas or thoughts on this. I'm not sure the best way of going about this from a design perspective.
In Ara Fell, every time you level up, you gain a skill point. Presently, you can level up any attribute (strength, intelligence, etc) as much as you want, with the exception of Seri Kesu, whose magic pool maxes out at 999, which could be achieved after leveling her Magic stat 12 times.
Some of the feedback I've received from Ara Fell's beta suggests that people are inclined to just max the stats of what they think the characters are best at. Lita, a quick, high damage archer, encourages players to raise her AGI and ATK stats, and ignore the rest.
This isn't inherently a problem, but it does encourage players to build their characters in ways that are sub-optimal. I don't mind if players do build their characters this way, but I don't want them to be encouraged to build this way.
Every stat is useful for every character. Increasing your Magic pool causes you to regenerate more per turn, for example. All damaging abilities scale much more with INT than with ATK.
What I'd like to do is make a generalizable system so that you can only raise a stat so high as regulated by some level cap. For example, maybe if you're <= level 10, your ATK can only be raised a maximum of 5 times, and <= level 20, a max of 10 times, etc.
Anyway, I was wondering if anyone had any ideas or thoughts on this. I'm not sure the best way of going about this from a design perspective.
My art isn't the best, but I think I'm doing alright. *Reads tutorials on how to art better* Oh my god all my drawings are garbage.
You will never be satisfied with what you have or what you can do, and you never should be. Every single person that's better than you was where you are right now, and every one of them looked at the people they wanted to be and said to themselves, "I can never do that."
Some people said that and were right. Some people said that and were wrong, but gave up anyway. And some people said that, but kept pressing on.
Being that third kind of person is a choice you make. And that really is all there is to it.
Some people said that and were right. Some people said that and were wrong, but gave up anyway. And some people said that, but kept pressing on.
Being that third kind of person is a choice you make. And that really is all there is to it.
Ara Fell
Yep. it will be, and they've been fixed, actually. I updated the itch.io, but forgot about this one. I'll do that now.
At any rate, you were at the end of the prologue anyway when that error came up.
At any rate, you were at the end of the prologue anyway when that error came up.
Almost there...
Thanks so much guys! If you know of anybody else that might be interested, please don't hesitate to share that link.
Release Something: Gotta Go Fast!!!
Re: Ara Fell Feedback
I'm not going to respond to each nice thing said about Ara Fell, but it is SO gratifying to see people like it! Like I've said before, I really poured my heart and soul into this game, and it means a lot to me that people appreciate it.
I'll give feedback randomly to some people!
@Craze
@Ocean and Nessiah
@Punkitt
@Kr0x
@Liberty
@Sooz
@Red_Nova I feel like if you, as a player, want to inhibit your own experience by cheating through battles, I'm okay with that. Or, if you just hate combat in games and want to only experience the story and exploration, I'm okay with that too. However, I may or may not include it in the final version. Actually, I think in this version, the story mode was meant to be taken out complete, but me and Charblar got our wires crossed while getting it ready. Was it added automatically? The game will give you an option to select storymode at the beginning in the final version, which will disable all Steam achievements.
As for her power shot, that's the same issue of me and Nikki not being synched up. Lita's attacks are all battle animations, which can't be shadowed by tinting the screen or pictures. So we've got a "shadow" attack and a normal attack. Unfortunately, we have to set the numbers for each one individually. This version got uploaded with the wrong database file, I think. Explains both of those issues.
Edit: As for Lita going to sleep then, my feeling is that she's had a very long day, she's exhausted, saw a ghost, found a weird magic ring, and she's given up hope after having just walked a big circle and ended up back where she started. She just wants to rest. I'll change the wording so it's more like that, though. Good suggestion.
As for her power shot, that's the same issue of me and Nikki not being synched up. Lita's attacks are all battle animations, which can't be shadowed by tinting the screen or pictures. So we've got a "shadow" attack and a normal attack. Unfortunately, we have to set the numbers for each one individually. This version got uploaded with the wrong database file, I think. Explains both of those issues.
Edit: As for Lita going to sleep then, my feeling is that she's had a very long day, she's exhausted, saw a ghost, found a weird magic ring, and she's given up hope after having just walked a big circle and ended up back where she started. She just wants to rest. I'll change the wording so it's more like that, though. Good suggestion.
I'm not going to respond to each nice thing said about Ara Fell, but it is SO gratifying to see people like it! Like I've said before, I really poured my heart and soul into this game, and it means a lot to me that people appreciate it.
I'll give feedback randomly to some people!
@Craze
Looking good! I'm glad to see Karsu is still at it.
@Ocean and Nessiah
There isn't much to say except how freaking adorable your work is. I've always loved your guys' style.
@Punkitt
I've been watching you on the screenshot thread for a while now. Very interested to see how that project turns out. I like the minimalistic look to it.
@Kr0x
Oh good, I haven't had any nightmares for a while...
@Liberty
That is looking really nice! Are you going for a sparse look, or do you intend to add more detail later on?
@Sooz
I have no idea what your game could be about based on that, but it legitimately looks interesting. I can imagine a really fun game being made around whatever the hell it is you've got over there!
Release Something: Gotta Go Fast!!!
A little late to the party, but Ara Fell's prologue has been submitted! Let me know what you guys think!
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