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WHY DQIX IS MORE PROGRESSIVE THAN YOU
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Craze
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Dragon Quest IX is more progressive than you. Note that while this is not necessarily an anti-2k3 thread, you can't do a lot of this in 2k3 (but can fairly quickly in VXP). Also, I concede that the menu outside of equipment is... mediocre.
-Spell criticals. There is a chance that spells - including healing spells - will "go haywire," doing about x1.5 damage/healing. The Mage skill path can grant a character a trait that raises this critical rate. It's really fun to see due to a shaking screen and bolts everywhere and yeah
-Block chance. Characters have two "negation" stats - their Evasion and their Block. Evasion is a chance to completely dodge any physical attack (including skills); Block is a chance to completely negate any damage in the game (including spells). It's really fun to see because the game goes slo-mo when your character blocks something
-Multi-action bosses. Some bosses get to move more than once per turn. This sounds simple but it is hella important and used quite well
-Exploration promotion. Stuff is hidden all over the giant world map - all you have to do is find it, lean over and pick it up. It's a simple way to get people to fight a few extra monsters while letting the player go YES KITTY LITTER
-Touch encounters. Yeah, Dragon Quest - that old fart - now has touch encounters. Touching them in the back raises your chance to surprise the enemy, them attacking you from behind raises the chance they'll get the initiative. Every single monster has a map sprite. Different monsters have different patterns based on your level; at the right levels, Pink Sanguinis will chase you and hunt you down, but Chariot Chappies will just rush toward you in a straight line, but stop
-Level scaling. Okay, this is in DQVIII, but I'm putting it here. This is level scaling so subtle I didn't even know it was there until I looked up the game mechanics in detail - but on a later playthrough, I definitely picked up on where it was keeping the game entertaining. Most enemies have reasonable min/max level caps for their areas, like a range of 4-8 levels. Some go up to 99, mostly in the late-game. Still, enemies stay engaging throughout your time in a dungeon, then stop growing so you can destroy them later on
DQ has touch encounters. You... have very few excuses not to have them, now.
Discuss your ineptitude.
Block chance. Characters have two "negation" stats - their Evasion and their Block. Evasion is a chance to completely dodge any physical attack (including skills); Block is a chance to completely negate any damage in the game (including spells). It's really fun to see because the game goes slo-mo when your character blocks something
Reliance on luck doesn't really sound progressive...
Shinan
4314
Was this made in the nineties? Or is this a case of "the lumbering beast" that is always fifteen years behind on any development?
Rowan
131
post=156301
Do you know what's better than DQIX and is made with RM2K3?
You guessed it.
Nevermind that you can do most of those in RM2K/3 anyway, and that most RMVXP users don't do them despite them having a maker with the ability to do so quite easily. This could've been a useful "here are some things I like from DQIX that I think you should try" thread if you weren't such an ass about it.
Things I was hoping Craze would start to grow out of:
- Bitching about RPGMaker 2003.
- Promoting RMVX despite it being inferior to 90% of other game-making platforms.
Yeah, I missed the part where Craze was being an ass.
Neophyte
155
You would have had more controversy if you put ff13 instead of dq9. Actually, they are both very progressive games.
Very easy to do those features in any dbs rm engine. But do continue. =)
I like touch encounters. Those are nice!
Very easy to do those features in any dbs rm engine. But do continue. =)
I like touch encounters. Those are nice!
Touch encounters suck.
Why? Because they don't promote level development. I don't care how frustrated you get at my game, there are going to be fights you will not be able to avoid. You will either be lumped with randoms or having to fight to survive.
When I play touch encounter games, I avoid every single monster. That's what EVERYONE does. It's a natural habit. And by doing that I end up under damn levelled at a boss at throw the game out a window.
FF13 does touch encounters in an alright way, but I still found myself less developed than I should've been. It ticks me off. Random encounters don't do this to me. It is the one and only thing I put in games as a developer that players object to, because of how I approach it and because of how everyone else approaches it. It's medicine that they don't want to take but will help them in the long run.
Yes, touch encounters can be executed well. But usually they aren't. I think it takes experience in the field and...I don't play touch encounter games very often.
I like the idea of exploration promotion, items on the world map. I might have to give that a go in my own game, I do want to promote exploration as much as possible.
Why? Because they don't promote level development. I don't care how frustrated you get at my game, there are going to be fights you will not be able to avoid. You will either be lumped with randoms or having to fight to survive.
When I play touch encounter games, I avoid every single monster. That's what EVERYONE does. It's a natural habit. And by doing that I end up under damn levelled at a boss at throw the game out a window.
FF13 does touch encounters in an alright way, but I still found myself less developed than I should've been. It ticks me off. Random encounters don't do this to me. It is the one and only thing I put in games as a developer that players object to, because of how I approach it and because of how everyone else approaches it. It's medicine that they don't want to take but will help them in the long run.
Yes, touch encounters can be executed well. But usually they aren't. I think it takes experience in the field and...I don't play touch encounter games very often.
I like the idea of exploration promotion, items on the world map. I might have to give that a go in my own game, I do want to promote exploration as much as possible.
When I play touch encounter games, I avoid every single monster. That's what EVERYONE does. It's a natural habit
It's not what I do. If I dislike the combat system that much to avoid every opportunity to fight, it's time to pop in another game. Also consider the fact that I enjoy some games combat system to rack up points or money, or develop skills or get TP/AP or whatever.
Touch encounter games where I enjoyed the fighting system for a variety of reasons
Chrono Trigger
Chrono Cross
Grandia
Saga Frontier
Romancing Saga
Final Fantasy XII (not a touch encounter system, but close enough)
If people avoid all touch encounters out of habit and get frustrated at the bosses, it's their own fault.
You are supposed to fight most, if not all touch encounters on the first run. The idea behind touch encounters is to make it easy to backtrack or avoid monsters if you're overleveled/have no need to fight.
The other important thing about touch encounters is that there should be JUST ENOUGH.
Then again, if the combat is so bad that people are going to avoid fights, then there's a problem.
You are supposed to fight most, if not all touch encounters on the first run. The idea behind touch encounters is to make it easy to backtrack or avoid monsters if you're overleveled/have no need to fight.
The other important thing about touch encounters is that there should be JUST ENOUGH.
Then again, if the combat is so bad that people are going to avoid fights, then there's a problem.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Aside from all being really simple things that plenty of RM games already use, these are not necessarily good ideas. They all have downsides as well as upsides. It's a matter of what type of game you're trying to make.
For instance, one obvious downside to the level scaling is that moving to the next dungeon increases your XP gain without increasing the difficulty of the enemies. If you make the XP gain scale as well, then the player loses their main motivation to move onward, and is encouraged to grind as long as possible.
I'm not sure I've ever seen an RPG that didn't reward exploration. Almost every dungeon in most games has treasure chests in out of the way places. But an obvious downside of doing this - the reason first person shooters and action games tend not to do it - is that it significantly slows the game down. There is something to be said for moving on with the game and getting to the next dungeon or quest or cut scene. It's a lot more exciting.
Extra randomness in battles can make normal battles - which tend to get repeated multiple times per dungeon - continue to be potentially dangerous later in the dungeon if the dice roll against your favor. But they also can make those battles be potentially too dangerous early in the dungeon if the dice roll against your favor, or make battles be too easy if the dice roll consistently in your favor. Randomness against bosses is often really deadly - if you miss too many times in a row, or if the boss gets too many crits in a row, then you're toast no matter what you do. There's nothing more annoying than getting a game over despite doing everything perfectly.
I'm sure there's a downside to touch encounters. Hmm. Well, for one thing, it adds a reflex-based mechanism to your game, which will irritate many players who play RPGs specifically because they don't require reflexes or coordination.
Obviously these changes have benefits too. Whether or not the benefits make up for the problems is up for debate and will vary from game to game.
For instance, one obvious downside to the level scaling is that moving to the next dungeon increases your XP gain without increasing the difficulty of the enemies. If you make the XP gain scale as well, then the player loses their main motivation to move onward, and is encouraged to grind as long as possible.
I'm not sure I've ever seen an RPG that didn't reward exploration. Almost every dungeon in most games has treasure chests in out of the way places. But an obvious downside of doing this - the reason first person shooters and action games tend not to do it - is that it significantly slows the game down. There is something to be said for moving on with the game and getting to the next dungeon or quest or cut scene. It's a lot more exciting.
Extra randomness in battles can make normal battles - which tend to get repeated multiple times per dungeon - continue to be potentially dangerous later in the dungeon if the dice roll against your favor. But they also can make those battles be potentially too dangerous early in the dungeon if the dice roll against your favor, or make battles be too easy if the dice roll consistently in your favor. Randomness against bosses is often really deadly - if you miss too many times in a row, or if the boss gets too many crits in a row, then you're toast no matter what you do. There's nothing more annoying than getting a game over despite doing everything perfectly.
I'm sure there's a downside to touch encounters. Hmm. Well, for one thing, it adds a reflex-based mechanism to your game, which will irritate many players who play RPGs specifically because they don't require reflexes or coordination.
Obviously these changes have benefits too. Whether or not the benefits make up for the problems is up for debate and will vary from game to game.
post=156321
If people avoid all touch encounters out of habit and get frustrated at the bosses, it's their own fault.
You are supposed to fight most, if not all touch encounters on the first run. The idea behind touch encounters is to make it easy to backtrack or avoid monsters if you're overleveled/have no need to fight.
The other important thing about touch encounters is that there should be JUST ENOUGH.
Then again, if the combat is so bad that people are going to avoid fights, then there's a problem.
It's the developers job to eliminate frustration, not the players. If it's their own fault or not doesn't really matter if they're going to stop playing your game. :(
If you assume the player is always at level cap and kills everything, the entire touch encounter system itself is one of those false illusions of choice. A better way is to figure out what the probable minimal level someone would be and balance the boss towards that. Then if you do have a player that goes through and kills everything, they are rewarded for it by actually being stronger and trivializing encounters. (allowing the player to be overpowered is usually pretty fun).
I think anytime something is designed to be optional for a player, it should actually be a viable decision basically.
WolfCoder
3554
"-Multi-action bosses. Some bosses get to move more than once per turn. This sounds simple but it is hella important and used quite well"
This is actually kind of stupid and is only a cheap way to implement "the computer is a cheating bastard".
"-Exploration promotion. Stuff is hidden all over the giant world map - all you have to do is find it, lean over and pick it up. It's a simple way to get people to fight a few extra monsters while letting the player go YES KITTY LITTER"
I did this in RM2K3 all the time long ago. You can do this easily in many different engines.
"-Touch encounters. ..."
Not always a good idea.
"-Level scaling..."
One of the things I really hate about some RPGs in particular.
This is actually kind of stupid and is only a cheap way to implement "the computer is a cheating bastard".
"-Exploration promotion. Stuff is hidden all over the giant world map - all you have to do is find it, lean over and pick it up. It's a simple way to get people to fight a few extra monsters while letting the player go YES KITTY LITTER"
I did this in RM2K3 all the time long ago. You can do this easily in many different engines.
"-Touch encounters. ..."
Not always a good idea.
"-Level scaling..."
One of the things I really hate about some RPGs in particular.
