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RPG MECHANICS V : SKILL PROGRESSION/SKILL SETS
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LouisCyphre
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CloseRPG Mechanics V : Skill Progression/Skill Sets
Ideal Questions
Firstly, how do you determine when a character learns a skill? Are skills learned by levels, or is there a system of points? How long does it take to learn a new skill? Perhaps skills are learned via items? Are skills learned from equipment, or from tomes found in your local magic shop?
Second, how do you decide who gets which skills? Is there a class system, or is it predicated on what equipment a character can equip? Are specific characters given specific skills based on a specialty, or can everyone learn everything? Do skills level up, and then spawn a copy of themselves at a certain level (FFVII)? Or do their skillsets evolve over time, with new skills replacing old skills over time?
Next, how are skills divided amongst characters? Does each character get a given specialty such as a type of elemental damage, or buffs and debuffs, or some other type of support? To characters have one specialty, or more than one? Do any specialties overlap? Are all abilities of a given type exclusive to that character, or does that character simply get the better abilities in that classification?
Lastly, how are your skills divided amongst themselves? Does magic fall under colors, or are they offensive and defensive? Are there a number of different disciplines, or are they all "skillz"? Does a character get one class of skills, or a number of preset ones, or do they vary?
This is part of a series of topics that will deal with aesthetics involving the detailed analysis of the numbers and mechanics of RPGs, what can be kept, and what should be discarded.
Don't be afraid to give ideas for the next RPG Mechanics discussion!
Way back in 1873, skills all came by level, and they came by pretty often. Unless, of course, your name happens to be Mardsen - then you have to go on missions for your skills, or read books, or such.
Every person in your posse has a specialty, like status or single-target or all-target, except the lady, who dabbles in a bit o' everythin'. Again, this here assumes your name ain't Mardsen, if it is, then you'll have everyone else's skills plus a whole bunch more, provided you been doin' your missions properly and such.
All them skills come with an icon attached to them, so you can see what skills they're similar to. It's not uncommon to only see three or four icons of a kind in your skillset, again unless you're a Mardsen.
Ideal Questions
Firstly, how do you determine when a character learns a skill? Are skills learned by levels, or is there a system of points? How long does it take to learn a new skill? Perhaps skills are learned via items? Are skills learned from equipment, or from tomes found in your local magic shop?
Second, how do you decide who gets which skills? Is there a class system, or is it predicated on what equipment a character can equip? Are specific characters given specific skills based on a specialty, or can everyone learn everything? Do skills level up, and then spawn a copy of themselves at a certain level (FFVII)? Or do their skillsets evolve over time, with new skills replacing old skills over time?
Next, how are skills divided amongst characters? Does each character get a given specialty such as a type of elemental damage, or buffs and debuffs, or some other type of support? To characters have one specialty, or more than one? Do any specialties overlap? Are all abilities of a given type exclusive to that character, or does that character simply get the better abilities in that classification?
Lastly, how are your skills divided amongst themselves? Does magic fall under colors, or are they offensive and defensive? Are there a number of different disciplines, or are they all "skillz"? Does a character get one class of skills, or a number of preset ones, or do they vary?
This is part of a series of topics that will deal with aesthetics involving the detailed analysis of the numbers and mechanics of RPGs, what can be kept, and what should be discarded.
- RPG Mechanics 4 : Boss Balancing and Strategy
- RPG Mechanics 3 : Random Encounter Design Theory
- RPG Mechanics 2 : Unique Action Command Theory
- RPG Mechanics 1 : HP to Damage Ratios, Other HP Related Discussion
Don't be afraid to give ideas for the next RPG Mechanics discussion!
Way back in 1873, skills all came by level, and they came by pretty often. Unless, of course, your name happens to be Mardsen - then you have to go on missions for your skills, or read books, or such.
Every person in your posse has a specialty, like status or single-target or all-target, except the lady, who dabbles in a bit o' everythin'. Again, this here assumes your name ain't Mardsen, if it is, then you'll have everyone else's skills plus a whole bunch more, provided you been doin' your missions properly and such.
All them skills come with an icon attached to them, so you can see what skills they're similar to. It's not uncommon to only see three or four icons of a kind in your skillset, again unless you're a Mardsen.
Short Answer: Usually in my games, most of this is up to the player.
1.
a) In Iron Gaia Part I, organic characters learned skills as they leveled up, whereas the robot was reliant on program discs to learn nw skills.
b) In Iron Gaia: Virus, you purchased skills along with other upgrades at cyberterminals with nanites. This was the only way to improve your character, and you had total control of it.
c) In Everything Turns Gray, your class determines most of your skills, although at certain levels you must choose between one skill and another. For example, at Level 5, Outlaws must choose between a skill that lets them 'eye gouge' an enemy, or a skill that increases their chances of retrieving more money after battle, Mechaniques must choose between a physical shield an an energy shield, Volta must choose between a skill that temporarily increases Security or a skill that temporarily increases Technology, and Protectors must choose between a special attack that hits twice or a skill that hits once really hard. (Both are 20% less accurate than normal attacks.)
d) In Mage Duel, you pick your starting skills based on class, and get a new skill pick from your class skills every few levels. You also get to pick a cross class skill at the end of each act.
c) In Blood Machine, skills will come from three sources: Pilot-skills, Program-skills, and auxiliary weapon system (equipment) based skills.
2. I think it's pretty well covered by the above.
3.
a) Armand Carter has miscellaneous skills and is very well rounded. Rover's skills entirely depend on what the player installs him but are usually direct damage/healing while Carter deals in Status Effects and buffs/debuffs. Xenos is a classic glass cannon black mage/nuker but also has the best group heal. His attack is generally the worst. (I should mention the game also has Mario, Agent Smith, Solid Snake, and Black Mage from 8-Bit Theatre available as hidden characters in New Game+/Hard Mode. I was very young.)
b) Iron Gaia: Virus has only one character.
c) By class.
d) Mage Duel probably has only one character, but the answer is, once again, by class.
e) Blood Machine probably has only one playable character.
4. Probably too complicated to cover here.
1.
a) In Iron Gaia Part I, organic characters learned skills as they leveled up, whereas the robot was reliant on program discs to learn nw skills.
b) In Iron Gaia: Virus, you purchased skills along with other upgrades at cyberterminals with nanites. This was the only way to improve your character, and you had total control of it.
c) In Everything Turns Gray, your class determines most of your skills, although at certain levels you must choose between one skill and another. For example, at Level 5, Outlaws must choose between a skill that lets them 'eye gouge' an enemy, or a skill that increases their chances of retrieving more money after battle, Mechaniques must choose between a physical shield an an energy shield, Volta must choose between a skill that temporarily increases Security or a skill that temporarily increases Technology, and Protectors must choose between a special attack that hits twice or a skill that hits once really hard. (Both are 20% less accurate than normal attacks.)
d) In Mage Duel, you pick your starting skills based on class, and get a new skill pick from your class skills every few levels. You also get to pick a cross class skill at the end of each act.
c) In Blood Machine, skills will come from three sources: Pilot-skills, Program-skills, and auxiliary weapon system (equipment) based skills.
2. I think it's pretty well covered by the above.
3.
a) Armand Carter has miscellaneous skills and is very well rounded. Rover's skills entirely depend on what the player installs him but are usually direct damage/healing while Carter deals in Status Effects and buffs/debuffs. Xenos is a classic glass cannon black mage/nuker but also has the best group heal. His attack is generally the worst. (I should mention the game also has Mario, Agent Smith, Solid Snake, and Black Mage from 8-Bit Theatre available as hidden characters in New Game+/Hard Mode. I was very young.)
b) Iron Gaia: Virus has only one character.
c) By class.
d) Mage Duel probably has only one character, but the answer is, once again, by class.
e) Blood Machine probably has only one playable character.
4. Probably too complicated to cover here.
S. F. LaValle
1069
Valid questions. I've found that it's actually difficult to implement many aspects of your game without having these questions answered.
1) Like you mentioned, skills by level have fallen out of favor with most modern RPG's. Believing that you simply need to finish a lot of battles and gain levels for growth is far more grating on the nerves than a system that promotes smart playing.
What I've elected to do is go with a skill point (SP or AP) system, gained from battles. I am also considering granting bonuses to gained skill points for the effective use of skills in battles. I haven't decided on whether or not they are "spent" (FF7, Xenosaga) or applied automatically towards assigned skills (FF6, FF7, FF8).
2) I've decided to make skills character-unique, with some exceptions. Each character (again, with few exceptions) specialize in an element (for the purpose of magic), a weapon, and something of a "trade" skill or occupation. Loosely put, they can each be considered their own class (FF4, or FF6). More on magic later, but I'm considering developing skills that grant these characters access to basic magic of other elements.
3) Each character will have three paths of skill growth that roughly follow functional archetypes. WoW players call this talent specs. All characters will have a tree dedicated to damage. Each character will then have two additional paths which serve to make their functions unique from each other (some will have tanking/defense specs, some support, some healing, etc). Some specs do overlap, but I've tried to compensate for this by diversifying the skillset by which characters are granted these abilities. For example, one character can be a healer by use of magic, while another can be healer by use of their "class" ability. My hope is that this will offer multiple ways to fill a role while also creating strategic advantages and disadvantages given certain situations.
WoW players might find this whole system borrowed, and it is. Let's face it; WoW has a great system with great implementation of characters and customization.
4) As mentioned above, emagic is divided up by element. Each element has its corresponding attack, as well as support (buff/debuff) characterized by the particular element. All characters use elemental magic. Skills are not all-encompasing, but can broken down into three basic categories: elemental abilities, weapon abilities, and "class" abilities (unique to each character, like theft, alchemy, etc). Also mentioned above, characters have three distinct paths for skill development, but they are comprised primarily of elemental magic, "class" skills, and weapon skills.
I thought about a lot of things, and I still don't have everything figured out, but I certainly asked myself those questions you proposed.
1) Like you mentioned, skills by level have fallen out of favor with most modern RPG's. Believing that you simply need to finish a lot of battles and gain levels for growth is far more grating on the nerves than a system that promotes smart playing.
What I've elected to do is go with a skill point (SP or AP) system, gained from battles. I am also considering granting bonuses to gained skill points for the effective use of skills in battles. I haven't decided on whether or not they are "spent" (FF7, Xenosaga) or applied automatically towards assigned skills (FF6, FF7, FF8).
2) I've decided to make skills character-unique, with some exceptions. Each character (again, with few exceptions) specialize in an element (for the purpose of magic), a weapon, and something of a "trade" skill or occupation. Loosely put, they can each be considered their own class (FF4, or FF6). More on magic later, but I'm considering developing skills that grant these characters access to basic magic of other elements.
3) Each character will have three paths of skill growth that roughly follow functional archetypes. WoW players call this talent specs. All characters will have a tree dedicated to damage. Each character will then have two additional paths which serve to make their functions unique from each other (some will have tanking/defense specs, some support, some healing, etc). Some specs do overlap, but I've tried to compensate for this by diversifying the skillset by which characters are granted these abilities. For example, one character can be a healer by use of magic, while another can be healer by use of their "class" ability. My hope is that this will offer multiple ways to fill a role while also creating strategic advantages and disadvantages given certain situations.
WoW players might find this whole system borrowed, and it is. Let's face it; WoW has a great system with great implementation of characters and customization.
4) As mentioned above, emagic is divided up by element. Each element has its corresponding attack, as well as support (buff/debuff) characterized by the particular element. All characters use elemental magic. Skills are not all-encompasing, but can broken down into three basic categories: elemental abilities, weapon abilities, and "class" abilities (unique to each character, like theft, alchemy, etc). Also mentioned above, characters have three distinct paths for skill development, but they are comprised primarily of elemental magic, "class" skills, and weapon skills.
I thought about a lot of things, and I still don't have everything figured out, but I certainly asked myself those questions you proposed.
1) Levels and sidequests.
2) Tanks typically get to equip swords, spears and axes; fighters (rogues) usually get daggers, swords and ranged weapons; mages usually get daggers and staves; healers usually get ranged weapons and staves. While there are some variations, such as a healer with fans, each major character type gets weapon skills for particular weapons.
As for magic and other skills: tanks usually get protective skills; fighters get debilitating skills; mages get elemental skills; healers get recovery skills. Naturally there are some character-specific archetype-bending things (like the elf being able to focus his ancient magic into a protective skill, or something), but that's minutia.
So, basically: rough class/archetype system with variations based on individual characters.
3) Each character usually has a specialized field of expertise, like a mage who gets fire magic quickly or a fighter who can inflict status effects with both swords and bows (although he might not have any dagger skills!). Due to the nature of a game with many characters, however, there is overlap; to combat this, each character has at least one unique skill learned at an early level. Other skills are pulled from the bank of universal abilities.
4) "Skillz". Most are very vague for imagination reasons: when Killian uses his Earl's Crest skillset to use a fire skill, it's going to be different from when Hakimoto uses his Hermit Lore to cast a controlled flame--even if they're the same skill in the database.
2) Tanks typically get to equip swords, spears and axes; fighters (rogues) usually get daggers, swords and ranged weapons; mages usually get daggers and staves; healers usually get ranged weapons and staves. While there are some variations, such as a healer with fans, each major character type gets weapon skills for particular weapons.
As for magic and other skills: tanks usually get protective skills; fighters get debilitating skills; mages get elemental skills; healers get recovery skills. Naturally there are some character-specific archetype-bending things (like the elf being able to focus his ancient magic into a protective skill, or something), but that's minutia.
So, basically: rough class/archetype system with variations based on individual characters.
3) Each character usually has a specialized field of expertise, like a mage who gets fire magic quickly or a fighter who can inflict status effects with both swords and bows (although he might not have any dagger skills!). Due to the nature of a game with many characters, however, there is overlap; to combat this, each character has at least one unique skill learned at an early level. Other skills are pulled from the bank of universal abilities.
4) "Skillz". Most are very vague for imagination reasons: when Killian uses his Earl's Crest skillset to use a fire skill, it's going to be different from when Hakimoto uses his Hermit Lore to cast a controlled flame--even if they're the same skill in the database.
Darken
3952
author=Fallen-Griever link=topic=3445.msg69237#msg69237 date=1238755962
Hint: Look at our signatures.
Exactly my point, we already know that the mechanics you describe will probably be in your game.
1:
It depends on the characters. I prefer each to have different ways to learn skills (in RealmS) though in other games it's usually 'level up = skill'. There are also a few field-skills that certain characters gain - some after events or side quests. Most of them are gained by joining a guild of some type - the Cartography Guild, for example, gives Narissa the ability to talk to people officially about areas of interest and allows her to find these areas (and name them after her guild name).
Narissa: Learns via Level Up, skill training (in archery courses) and what quiver she has equipped.
Jidor: Learns via weapon equips. Each weapon has four skills - one auto-learnt and three that need to have 'focus points' put in to them as he levels up. Once a skill is learned he can use it when that weapon is equipped, but if he removes the weapon he can only keep one of the four skills (but can change them at any time).
Clarissa: Mostly training and weapon equipping. I'm thinking about skill advancement where each basic skill can be 'upgraded' to include elemental affinity, status-causers and damage amplifiers.
Mirad: Learns elemental skills by reading scrolls and signing contracts with elemental spirits, though that idea is still being refined. He's the only one that can have magic, but he also has weapon skills. His spells are also enhanced/dehanced by what kind of area he is in - if in a desert fire skills cost less but do more damage, and though ice/water skills may cost more they're more effective against any fire elementals met in such a place (though the fire elementals will also get a boost).
There are also item skills that can be used by all party members and some rare skills that can be gained only through winning duels.
2:
Well, as I said, each character is different, so their ability to learn skills is part of their ability/knowledge/class. Narissa is basically a scout, Jidor a trader/warrior, Clarissa is pole-arm infantry/spy and Mirad a battle magus. Their skills support their characters.
There's a bit of replacement, skill wise, especially with Narissa's quivers, Jidor's weapons, Clarissa's upgrading and Mirad's area enhancements/contracts.
3:
Well there's really not much in the way of overlap with skills, though there are some that may do the same type of things (One of Jidor's skills allows him to divide a healing item among the party to heal at a lower rate, while one of Mirad's skills allows the use of magic to heal low health, but uses base items (think alchemy... sort-of).
Narissa and Mirad have elemental attacks covered, while Clarissa and Jidor cover the de-buff areas. As for buffs, they're usually supplied via equipment, though Narissa has some self-applying buffs and there may be some more in the making.
Mirad is the only mage-type character, though, Narissa is long-range support, Clarissa is mid-short range melee and Jidor short-range melee.
4:
Only certain skills can be learned by each characters. There's no cross-over. Jidor can't learn Archery skills and Narissa can't learn magic. Each skill-type has it's own category, though. Narissa has Shoot (attack), Boost (self-support) and Quiver (elemental/status affliction skills). Jidor has Strike (attack), Swordery* (equipment skills) and Protect (healing/enhancement skills). Clarissa has Stab (attack), Pike Arts (upgradable) and Dare (status affliction). Mirad has Thwack (attack), Arcana (light and dark magics) and Replenish (healing via alchemy).
*Name pending re-evalutation.
Gee, I wrote a lot.^.^;
It depends on the characters. I prefer each to have different ways to learn skills (in RealmS) though in other games it's usually 'level up = skill'. There are also a few field-skills that certain characters gain - some after events or side quests. Most of them are gained by joining a guild of some type - the Cartography Guild, for example, gives Narissa the ability to talk to people officially about areas of interest and allows her to find these areas (and name them after her guild name).
Narissa: Learns via Level Up, skill training (in archery courses) and what quiver she has equipped.
Jidor: Learns via weapon equips. Each weapon has four skills - one auto-learnt and three that need to have 'focus points' put in to them as he levels up. Once a skill is learned he can use it when that weapon is equipped, but if he removes the weapon he can only keep one of the four skills (but can change them at any time).
Clarissa: Mostly training and weapon equipping. I'm thinking about skill advancement where each basic skill can be 'upgraded' to include elemental affinity, status-causers and damage amplifiers.
Mirad: Learns elemental skills by reading scrolls and signing contracts with elemental spirits, though that idea is still being refined. He's the only one that can have magic, but he also has weapon skills. His spells are also enhanced/dehanced by what kind of area he is in - if in a desert fire skills cost less but do more damage, and though ice/water skills may cost more they're more effective against any fire elementals met in such a place (though the fire elementals will also get a boost).
There are also item skills that can be used by all party members and some rare skills that can be gained only through winning duels.
2:
Well, as I said, each character is different, so their ability to learn skills is part of their ability/knowledge/class. Narissa is basically a scout, Jidor a trader/warrior, Clarissa is pole-arm infantry/spy and Mirad a battle magus. Their skills support their characters.
There's a bit of replacement, skill wise, especially with Narissa's quivers, Jidor's weapons, Clarissa's upgrading and Mirad's area enhancements/contracts.
3:
Well there's really not much in the way of overlap with skills, though there are some that may do the same type of things (One of Jidor's skills allows him to divide a healing item among the party to heal at a lower rate, while one of Mirad's skills allows the use of magic to heal low health, but uses base items (think alchemy... sort-of).
Narissa and Mirad have elemental attacks covered, while Clarissa and Jidor cover the de-buff areas. As for buffs, they're usually supplied via equipment, though Narissa has some self-applying buffs and there may be some more in the making.
Mirad is the only mage-type character, though, Narissa is long-range support, Clarissa is mid-short range melee and Jidor short-range melee.
4:
Only certain skills can be learned by each characters. There's no cross-over. Jidor can't learn Archery skills and Narissa can't learn magic. Each skill-type has it's own category, though. Narissa has Shoot (attack), Boost (self-support) and Quiver (elemental/status affliction skills). Jidor has Strike (attack), Swordery* (equipment skills) and Protect (healing/enhancement skills). Clarissa has Stab (attack), Pike Arts (upgradable) and Dare (status affliction). Mirad has Thwack (attack), Arcana (light and dark magics) and Replenish (healing via alchemy).
*Name pending re-evalutation.
Gee, I wrote a lot.^.^;
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