WHEN YOU LEARN TOUHOU MUSIC IS ROYALTY FREE

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KrimsonKatt
Gamedev by sunlight, magical girl by moonlight
3326


The story behind this is that one day while randomly watching memes on Youtube I stumbled across a fire Emblem meme video called "Awaken My Dedue" by OfficialJugg which had really cool background music from 2:50 - 3:14. I checked the description hoping that there were links to the music used, and sure enough, there was! The video is question is called "Shihori - Day Breaker" and features the song I liked from the video. I added it to my playlist and moved on with my life.

Later on, I decided to use the theme in one of my future games as the theme of the true final boss, and just hoped either the song was royalty free or was obscure enough to not be noticed. However, just today I decided randomly to search for other versions of the song on Youtube. I couldn't find any other similar results when I searched up "Day Breaker Song," leading me only to some obscure rock song and My Little Pony AMVs.

However, going into the comments, I found one particular gem: "I just found out this is a touhou song. The other name for this song is sepetet for the dead princess." - Leslie Siflutez. Upon searching for the actual name of the song, I found a LOT more remixes. However, most of them had a different beat and temo from the "Remix" that was "Shihori Day Breaker," so I couldn't use any of them for my game, including the 8 Bit ones (my game is in a 8 bit style) and the original since it has lyrics.

However, I remembered something I heard online that all Touhou content, including it's excellent music and all it's characters, are 100% allowed by the creator to be used however you like as long as you also let other people use the characters and music for free as well. That's why 99% of Touhou are fan-games. The creator just lets the devs have free reign over his creations and he doesn't care.

This is why in a perfect world, copyright wouldn't exist. The only reason it exists is pure greed, and since in a perfect world everything would be free and people would only make and supply goods and services because they like doing it, copyright is overall pointless and only serves to benefit corporations while hurting the general populace who aren't skilled enough to make their own stuff.

Anyways, since all Touhou content is open-source, I am 100% free to use that song, especially my future remix that I commission, in any of my games, even if said game is commercial. Anyways, enjoy the meme!
author=KrimsonKatt
even if said game is commercial.


That does mean that your game needs to use the same license as well, doesn't it?
Nevertheless this is awesome news. The only reason we hang onto copyright is probably irrational fear... Copyright doesn't stop art thieves from making a game with Suikoden rips then denying it and pretending it's their own, but even more importantly, it doesn't stop scammers from downloading your game off of rmn, porting it to android and making money.

But it stops artists with legitimate good intent to create good derivative work.
Marrend
Guardian of the Description Thread
21781
"Something you heard online"? When? Where? From who?

*Edit: Sorry, I'm just having a lot of trouble accepting this at face value, even if it can be proven true.
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
Hm...

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki:Copyrights

This is a translation of ZUN's terms of use, so I can't claim it's 100% accurate. However, here are the first two bullet points:

To avoid trouble, please satisfy the following conditions.

1. Using game data other than screenshots is forbidden.
2. If you need data other than screenshots, please make them yourself.


Keep in mind that these bullet points are all under the assumption that you are making a Touhou derivative work. I don't see anywhere on this license or elsewhere that allows you to just grab a track from a Touhou game and stick it into an unrelated RPG Maker game. Do you know where that was explicitly stated by the dev? Somewhere more official than a Youtube comment by a random person?

REMIXES of Touhou tracks are a different story, and you'll have the check the terms of whoever remixed the tracks to see if THEY are okay with it. But now we're not talking about Touhou music itself anymore.
unity
You're magical to me.
12540
author=KrimsonKatt
This is why in a perfect world, copyright wouldn't exist. The only reason it exists is pure greed, and since in a perfect world everything would be free and people would only make and supply goods and services because they like doing it, copyright is overall pointless and only serves to benefit corporations while hurting the general populace who aren't skilled enough to make their own stuff.

There are a lot of problems with copyright law to be sure, and how easy it is for corporations to exploit small creators. Disney keeps lengthening how long it takes stuff to go into public domain just to protect their precious mouse. And a major revision to copyright would be cool. But the statement that copyright wouldn't exist in a perfect world is, maybe, something worth examining and thinking about a bit more.

We live in a world where copyright should protect smaller artists, but it mostly doesn't. It's total crap that corporations can get away with manipulating artists and creators but have the resources and legal team needed to stomp on anyone that, say, makes a fangame (looking at you, Nintendo).

We've still got companies stealing designs of artists and putting them on whatever they want with no compensation or credit to the original artists, because, hey, they usually get away with it, and if not, the creator has to have money for legal services to just stand up to them. So yes, where we are right now, copyright law has a lot of problems, IMO.

At the same time, if copyright got fixed where it actually did protect all of us small creators and artists, would you still want to throw it out a window?

Just as an exercise, if you somehow made the next Undertale, an indie game that swept across the internet and became a touchstone for a generation of gamers, would you be cool getting no money from that? Would it be cool if anyone could sell T-Shirts, novels, spin-off games, anything of your work without your permission and without giving you a dime?

Maybe you are cool with that, and yeah, in a perfect world where we didn't have to have money to survive, sure, I'm sure it could work. But small artists and creators need money to live.

I know you've said previously that they should be able to work a normal job on top of their artistic work, but that implies that artist work isn't real work, which... honestly is a pretty terrible mindset, because artwork is a craft, composing music is a craft, all of these take years and years of practice and a lot of hard work.

Given you were the same person who got very vocal when someone who makes monster sprites wanted to put their new works behind a $5 paywall, I think you should consider this a little more. Artistic and creative work is still work, and it'd be nice if the people who made stuff could get paid for it.

Heroes who put their stuff out there, freely, for anyone to use, or under a Creative Commons license are awesome! But not everyone can afford to do that.
unity just said it all what a great comment. god i'm going to print unity's post in a shirt and sell

edit: that thread about aekashics is REALLY problematic, lol. it's behind a great deal of problems in the rpg maker community, and if creators were more respected -- and rewarded -- we could have so much more.
KrimsonKatt
Gamedev by sunlight, magical girl by moonlight
3326
Sorry about that post about AKsprites. That was a long time ago, and was mostly based on misconceptions and fear. (but most of my fears came true anyways lol) I was just upset that since I don't have a job, I can't really subscribe to any subscription services myself as I don't have a reliable source on income and I doubt my parents would pay for a RPG Maker art subscription instead of something like Netflix or Disney Plus, despite being $10 more expensive. It's really only $1 a month for tons of high quality battlers, and the first 1000 battlers are still free, so I'm not complaining. It's just because of my situation that I can't afford it, and people should be rewarded for their hard work if they decide to do so. Also, about the "no copyright in a perfect world" thing. Yes, in the current world we live in, copyright cannot just be abolished as people would just abuse it, but I do agree with you that it does have to be amended. However, in a perfect world MONEY WOULD NOT BE NEEDED TO SURVIVE. No one would do anything bad or be motivated by pure greed, envy, or any of the other seven sins. Everything would be provided for and people would do things for other people solely out of the goodness of their heart. Money wouldn't be an issue. They would be no more disease, annoying bugs, stupidity, corruption, greed, hate, natural disasters, pain, or evil. Communism attempted to accomplish this by giving almost complete power to the government in order to "provide for the people," but was heavily flawed due to the nature of humanity being motivated by the seven sins, leading inevitably to corruption. That's why the American political system, while flawed, is the best we can do by splitting the power between multiple branches of government and allowing the people to choose their leaders but also not giving TOO much power to the people because then the radicals will take control and there would be chaos and anarchy with the stupid people taking over and bringing ruin to the world. A balance between the people and the government is needed to supply the needs of the inherently corrupt human race, as well as a balance between the two political spectrum, taking ideas from both sides in order to find the truth. #EnlightenedCentrist

Edit: I can't believe people keep bringing up drama from over a year ago. It's already over and done with. People's views can change a lot in a year, even a day, so it's not fair to judge things people did a long time ago unless it's REALLY bad (IE Assault) or they still hold the same views all those years later. What are you trying to do? Cancel me? I don't even have 500 total downloads! (that last part was a joke)
Marrend
Guardian of the Description Thread
21781
I'm fully aware of the old adage, "The love of money is the root of all evil". On the other hand, I think it's a little irresponsible to say that money isn't necessary, and it ceasing to exist would solve every single problem ever. There's this concept in economics called "opportunity cost" that basically says that everything induces some kind of cost. The "cost" can be any combination of time, effort, tools/equipment, and/or knowledge/skills, needed for the good/service in question.

In the case of something that is "free", the consumer has no burden of cost. The burden of cost is paid entirely by the one producing the good/service in that they are not receiving any compensation for using their resources (ie: time, effort, etc). Though, it's possible that there may be a certain value for the producer to provide said good/service for "free", and that value could be their "compensation". In the case of something that costs money, the burden of cost is still paid by the producer. However, there is burden of cost placed on the consumer for the producer's use of their resources.

I'm not going to argue that the "unpaid" scenario is always going to be better than the "paid" scenario. Good for the consumer? Yes, absolutely! Good for the producer? I don't know if there is one singular answer for this, as it depends on what kind, not to mention how many, resources were used.

*Edit: I probably spend waaaaaaay to much time getting my thoughts together to make this post. Please compensate the use of my time by playing my games.
KrimsonKatt
Gamedev by sunlight, magical girl by moonlight
3326
@Marrend I'm not saying erasing money would solve all the world's problems. In this world, money is necessary to maintain balance and provide incentive for good behavior, though sadly many people earn far to little money for the effort they make and some people earn a ridiculous amount of money for literally doing nothing. (Like female twitch streamers and their army of simps giving them $1000 a month for free. Makes me really jealous for more reasons than one.) Thus, if money just disappeared,there would be chaos. That's why money could no longer be an issue ONLY in a world free from all evil. Money isn't the root of all evil, though it is an aspect that leads people to embracing greed as you can do anything with enough money but you will never be satisfied no matter how much you earn. Thus is the nature of human existence.

Edit: Wow. This was really turned from an innocent meme thread into a philosophical debate about the nature of human existence. Can someone please close this before this gets out of hand? Thanks.

Edit 2: Also Unity, PLEASE don't link to a thread that's 1: over a year old and 2: No longer aligns with my views and was manly posed as a knee-jerk reaction to AKsprites making his new assets paid and me making the conclusion that Yanfly would soon do the same. And hey, I ended up being 100% right in my warning! And no one listened to me! Fun times... (sorry for being sarcastic lol just making a joke)
We don't hate you, we don't want to attack you, and you don't have to feel worried. I can sense the sincerity in what you're trying to say, personally. You're cool.

We all say some shit sometimes. Although I don't see how you ended up "being right" (I don't know what the deal with aekashics was) it does seem like you have a very reasonable viewpoint towards their making a living, and are understanding of their position -- regardless of frustration towards not being able to afford it, which is natural and understandable.

So, I dunno, no need to feel attacked. About utopia not needing money, I agree. About removing money from Earth and it leading to chaos, I also agree. It's a complex situation.

Some countries are studying UBI - Universal Basic Income -- as a solution to part of the problems that capitalism stirs on our society. I think it's a great alternative, especially considering the very positive results it has shown in the communities where it has been applied. But that's perhaps a topic for another, uh, topic. Not that we're going uncivil, in here, and this is awesome debate! So I recommend opening another thread because this is really cool conversation.

And once again, don't worry! ^.^
As for unity, she never means harm -- but she understandably got pissed upon reading that thread -- and so did I. If you don't want people to be pissed about it I recommend editing the OP with your updated views, or else anybody who reads it will think you're an ass. You've proven that you're not in this thread, now, but, you know, the old one is there.

Also, that's a lot of commas.
unity
You're magical to me.
12540
author=KrimsonKatt
Edit 2: Also Unity, PLEASE don't link to a thread that's 1: over a year old and 2: No longer aligns with my views and was manly posed as a knee-jerk reaction to AKsprites making his new assets paid and me making the conclusion that Yanfly would soon do the same. And hey, I ended up being 100% right in my warning! And no one listened to me! Fun times... (sorry for being sarcastic lol just making a joke)


I'm not trying to hate on you and I'm just trying to get you to think. If this was just supposed to be a "silly meme" you wouldn't have written 6 paragraphs. If you say stuff like "This is why in a perfect world, copyright wouldn't exist," you've gotta expect people to respond to it.

Also there's no rule against linking people's old threads.
Marrend
Guardian of the Description Thread
21781
author=KrimsonKatt
Wow. This was really turned from an innocent meme thread into a philosophical debate about the nature of human existence. Can someone please close this before this gets out of hand? Thanks.

Innocent meme thread? It might include a meme, but, seems to me this thread was to "spread the good word". The source of which is still in question, by the way. In case you completely missed certain posts. Unless it's hidden within one of your wall-o-texts?

In the interest of putting this thread back on track, I will forgo any further considerations about this thread's philosophical direction.

*Edit: Or put my musings under a hide-tag in an attempt to not derail too much.

"That's why money could no longer be an issue ONLY in a world free from all evil"

A world without greed may have more people that are willing to give things away things for free. Though, resources would still limited, and would therefore have value. So, like, I kinda suspect that money may still be an issue, just not as big as it is in this world that we do have.


"..me making the conclusion that Yanfly would soon do the same. And hey, I ended up being 100% right in my warning! And no one listened to me! Fun times... (sorry for being sarcastic lol just making a joke)"

Even if it's a joke, are you aware of what preceded Yanfly's decision to paywall his scripts?
KrimsonKatt
Gamedev by sunlight, magical girl by moonlight
3326
I wasn't trying to spread my beliefs. I just wanted to let you know the context of my post, and then got sidetracked on something completely unrelated, which I tend to do far too often.

@JosephSeraph You seem like a very nice person, so thanks for clarifying. Same with you Unity. Also, the thing about me being "Right" was that the whole offending post in question was meant to be a PSA telling people to download Yanfly's stuff before they become paid. But then I became sidetracked saying stuff like Yanfly or AKsprites shouldn't make their things paid for petty, selfish reasons. (That I'm broke and don't have a job) Though I still think that Yanfly making all his plugins paid and quitting right when a new maker was about to come out was a really crappy move, but hey it's his decision, I won't judge. If he wants to make RPG Maker MZ fail due to the lack of plugins, that's his choice.

However, recently @Marrend had been being really passive aggressive to me both on here and the official RPG Maker forums. I don't really know what's going on with that person. I really hope it isn't about that drama in november. I thought I already finished that up!
Marrend
Guardian of the Description Thread
21781
author=KrimsonKatt
However, recently @Marrend had been being really passive aggressive to me both on here and the official RPG Maker forums.


The official site? When? I seriously don't recall interacting with you there.

Sorry. I probably should step away from this thread, and cool off for a bit.
Tone it down a littleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee omg.... im trying to de-escalate XD

edit: not directed at marrend lol
KrimsonKatt
Gamedev by sunlight, magical girl by moonlight
3326
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Yeah, all the Touhou fan-games use fan-made remixes of the songs for this reason. The setting and characters and everything are free to use, though you do have to ask permission if you're selling your game commercially (but my understanding is that he almost always gives permission as long as it's not porn). But ZUN does sell the games, so redistributing the games themselves in part or whole is still against his terms. This includes directly ripping the resources from them.

The thing Red_Nova linked is worth reading.
KrimsonKatt
Gamedev by sunlight, magical girl by moonlight
3326
@LockeZ Okay, I understand. My game is SFW (rated T) and the only touhou content it uses is a song remix for the true final boss. The game is planned to be commercial, so will I have to constant the guy or am I free since it's only a remix and not a direct rip? Thanks.
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