FATALISM THEME INCORPORATED INTO THE STRUCTURE OF THE GAME ITSELF?

edit: @Red_Nova Ah, okay, thanks for explaining that.

@ Max McGee XD Sorry dude, Call of Duty just isn't for me, haha.

Well, the player wouldn't have any choice, but the character would... it's not as if someone else is forcing him to do this stuff (besides the player which could further illustrate this theme) however as I've mentioned earlier, he is selfish, desperate and now that I've just thought of it, impulsive. I think (for now at least) having a dialogue box come up with some prompt in a cut scene that the player must click to continue might be a good way of conveying this...? Yeah XD I don't know.

There's not really a lot of subtext, it is going to be an open sort of story as in-game, all the CHARACTERS are the ones who are lying to each other.

At its most basic I could say that the story is about the absence of love in the characters' lives (particularly to do with notions of family), and the stuff that takes its place. The main character has, firstly, been horribly abused by his father. He is then separated from his daughter, she doesn't know he is her father. This has made him more sad than he realises. He does a lot of horrible stuff to fill the void.

The player character does ultimately take responsibility for his actions at the end of the game, and it has a relatively happy ending. So I guess the fate theme could carry on right to the end, that all of the bad stuff that happens to him/he does to other people was only part of the journey to being reunited with his daughter... which yeah just further solidifies the need to have fate embedded into the gameplay itself.

I've read your article before and I did think of it when Spec Ops: The Line was mentioned :D

I don't want to make a game like Spec Ops at all (as in, one that tries to shove some sort of naff meaningful message at the player), I guess the only similarity is the fate thing. There are a lot of other themes in my game but it's like you said, the fate thing seemed the easiest to reflect in the gameplay, honestly. I really only have a rough idea of the gameplay so far as I've spent much more time on the art & story.

(Holy crap I was just about to address you as "pentagram"... then remembered you're "Pentagon". So there's a high chance I have called you Pentagram elsewhere in the forum XD)

I know what I said before makes the game sound a lot worse than it potentially will be, regarding a sad/angry dude and sex stuff - which basically sounds like the recipe for a badly written rapist? Also I get the feeling you think I'm going to make like mini-games out of abusing women to shock the player or something. I am reading a lot into what you said, and I feel a bit bad now (for not explaining my game better before). Using exploitation as the basis of the horror is not really my purpose... but there is (inspired directly by David Lynch) a pretty huge element of sexual abuse in the story; the main character and his two brothers all have dealt with the abuse from their father in their own ways, with one bro being a worse person than the mc and the other bro being the better.

The horror does not come from scenes of rape or anything, this is not like a game meant to shock you with how "gross" it is. Let me assure you, I have thought really critically about this part of the game as I have of its place in other media. I have a good idea of your views on putting this stuff at all in a game or anything else from your review of Dreaming Mary. That review was really helpful, actually, as it made me even more cautious about how I was going to present this subject.

The protagonist is supposed to be somewhat sympathetic+. The traumas he suffered as a kid still affect him now (as they would). He had his daughter as a young teenager, which is why his older bro raised her as his own. This is unnatural, they should be father and daughter, but she grows up thinking he is her uncle. This causes him a lot of sadness and he finds a substitute daughter whose own father is violent and controlling, so he is the better father-figure to her as well. However he at some point starts an affair with her younger sister, who is as young as he was when he had his daughter. The girls' father attacks the daughter when he finds out, then makes a bargain with the mc in that he won't tell anyone he has been sleeping with his daughter if the mc keeps quiet about the physical abuse. The mc DOES this, and that is what I meant by "horrible things". He is very selfish, and doesn't want to lose the love and trust of his older bro. He eventually gives himself up when the girls' father attacks the youngest again quite viciously. His bro is disgusted. At some point the mc's daughter discovers he is really her father, and is horrified/saddened. MC kills the girls' father as he thinks that will make up for him making a sordid deal with the father earlier and enabling him to continue to hurt his daughters. It doesn't. Anyway yadda yadda yadda, he does try to run but ends up taking responsibility for that stuff. He goes to prison, and should be unhappy, but because his daughter finally knows he is her father, and is making peace with it, he is happier now than he has ever been. (There is a lot more stuff but that is the basic plot).

There is supernatural stuff to justify the "horror" tag. It is meant to be symbolic of the unnatural things the protagonist and his brothers suffered as children.

Anyway that is why I thought to put the fate/linear thing in the gameplay, as the other (and more important) themes sort of mirror each other anyway within the story itself.

So... feel free to argue against what I've said, I am genuinely interested in what you say about this subject. (I'll also note - not that it makes a real difference - that I AM a woman. But yeah)

@Pentagon: Haha sorry, I guess I just posted that huge detailed rant because I wanted to be clear that I agree that it (and yeah, all other themes in anything) should be considered greatly before it's used so that you actually know what you're doing/what you're trying to say. Not just throwing it in there for a cheap shock.

So... thanks for your feedback! And I really appreciate the offer of helping me out if I feel something is amiss in my story. Thanks, dude!

@Max McGee, haha, you're so argumentative.
My interpretation of what Pentagon meant was to consider whether what you're portraying in your game comes off as exploitation or ...exploration. Like he just said, it doesn't mean you CAN'T use those themes, but I think you should feel that you have some responsibility to portray them tastefully. Or not - that could be the purpose of your work, to have as much bad taste as possible as a sort of satire or something. I guess it's all about context.

I DO consider Silent Hill 2/Angela Oroscoe to be an example of a well-done treatment of this stuff, and in fact it was quite an influence on my work. I mentioned this in my horror design topic, but Twin Peaks (especially the movie) is another excellent example, as is Lynch's more recent film Inland Empire.

And I have read all about D:BE, and I am an admirer of Calunio's work as it is clear that he gives a lot more thought to his games and how to execute difficult themes than many other people.

And lastly, I was kind of judging it :P, but I also meant that I am not trying to emulate that particular directness/linearity in my game at all, that I am not trying to make like a "mindfuck" game. I said earlier, there is little subtext in the way the game itself will be written, as the characters are the ones who are in the dark about each others' situations.